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Unread 08-09-2011, 06:31 PM   #1
Grandavi
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Lightbulb 7mgte upgrade path....

Ok, the 1jz post got me thinking... My car is solid, but stock. About 20k km on the rebuild done in 2002 with oem hg. Last year I did a compression and leakdown test along with new wires/plugs and hoses with rcts in Calgary.

So... When my car gets back I am ripping out the rest of the interior for a complete redo over winter (after cruising a bit to enjoy the new look first of course). But when I put it back together it would be silly not to do it without new gauges. Therefore, I need tonplot the path for the drivetrain.
(suspension and wheels before interior because I will need to access the rear shock towers)

Basically, I am only planning to the the engine somewhere in the 400'ish rwhp range.

My plan (this us what I need advice and confirmation in)

Upgrade turbo
- planning on staying with the ct-26 but upgrading to either a 57 trim or 60-1.

Wastegate
- no idea what to look at for this, as I don't understand what the requirements are for upgrades. I have read about skimming, but I dont want to do it that way. Do I even need to do this?

Injectors
- thinking 550's, however maybe a higher flow is better? I have already upped the fuel pump to a denso from the mkiv but don't have or know if I need any monitoring or regulator. In the end I would like to go stand alone, but in between am thinking of the Lexus AFM...

Lexus AFM (electronics)
- I see these for sale from time to time but have avoided them because I don't know if I should buy one and how to adjust my system to accept it. Should I pick one up or ignore it for now

(making second post so I dont run out if words)

RESULTS
Turbo =

Last edited by Grandavi; 08-13-2011 at 10:14 AM.
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Unread 08-09-2011, 06:45 PM   #2
Grandavi
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3" exhaust (cutback) + magnaflow 3" cat + 3" ddp.
-kind of a no-brainer but to go stand alone do I need a dp with 2 o2 bungholes? Or can that be added later fit a stand alone monitoring system.

Boost controller
- not sure if u should worry about this or not yet. Unsure of if this will be a requirement or if the standalone will take care if it. I could go with a cheap manual fit now just to up my boost to about 10 psi, but then I think I need to deal with the waste gate and thinking I will just be hitting fuel cut a lot until I get larger injectors and the Lexus AFM upgrade.

BOV
- this is another one that puzzles me. I know why it's necessary but nit when the stock one isn't enough. Do I just add one or us there tuning/spring tension (diaphram) concerns based in what turbo is spoiling, etc...

Gauges
- boost gauge (think that's a no brainer) but what others do I NEED?
(this is important to me because my dash hash to come out for the **shudder** heater core...)

Intercooler
-at what point do I need to upgrade ?

FFIM
-for my power needs, although they look wicked... I don't think I need to even consider one... (correct?)
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Unread 08-09-2011, 06:50 PM   #3
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And can I pop on an upgraded turbo without any other upgrades? (other than the exhaust)

I want to do turbo and exhaust first... Fuel second... Management very shortly after fuel

Originally I wanted to do the full upgrade path all at once but finances don't allow it, and I don't want to do it cheaply or twice if I can avoid it
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Unread 08-09-2011, 07:15 PM   #4
JustinSane
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Aftermarket Head gasket and arp studs should be first on your list. I wouldn't even consider a boost controller until you had those, the exhaust, and intercooler. Go with 550s and lexus afm (they will work as is aside from maybe clips. Boost controller should be down the list, once you have the basics to keep your engine together, then think about overboosting.

550s will be plenty big for your power range, no need for a different wastegate, even stock turbo is almost good enough (but not quite). I would do the intercooler somewhere around the time of injectors exhaust and lexus adm, before boost. controller for sure. Ffim is not required at all. Aftermarket bov will be necessary after the boost starts getting increased, but not right away.

Wideband is a must.

Last edited by JustinSane; 08-09-2011 at 07:21 PM.
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Unread 08-09-2011, 08:05 PM   #5
Grandavi
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My engine should do 10-15 psi as is I thought. My plan was to get all the addons for the engine and run the engine until it complained. Then I would upgrade to forged internals, balanced, rebuilt head , etc...

Bear in mind, I only drive the car between 2k-3k km per year. The only real boosting it sees is onramps and the odd car that tempts me. I may try tracking it, but that wouldn't be for 3-5 years from now. I want that turbo pull when it's needed, but overall I baby it.

So, I can add the turbo prior to fuel upgrades and it will function fine then. (at stock boost) I was concerned that it would run too rich.
The Lexus AFM will run same as the stock AFM if I understand... Until the injectors are upgraded. Then I believe you have to do a "screw" adjustment to alter the fuel cut. (not 100% clear on that... I thought I should avoid the arm unt the injectors were upgraded. The car wouldn't run properly until then)

1. 3" exhaust... Turbo back
2. Turbo?
3. Intercooler
(ignore the engine condition... If it fails, I just have an excuse to build it)
Lexus AFM and injectors anytime

When should the sideband happen... Pre-upgrade or after the above list?
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Unread 08-09-2011, 08:07 PM   #6
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I hate iPhone typos... Meant wideband...
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Unread 08-09-2011, 08:25 PM   #7
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Stock HG is fine with decent torque holding the head down. Reg runs a Toyota stock in his, and has run over 20 lbs boost in it. Given how conservative he is, I can't see him doing that if it's risky.

Yes, a MHG is stronger, when properly seated and sealed, but that doesn't mean that you can't have a solid motor with a stock HG. A MHG is not a substitute for proper torque spec and procedure.

Myself, I'd do the injectors and AFM first (This was the first non-stock things in my engine.) Fuel system next, so that you're all set for the bigger turbo and higher boost all nice and safe. Well, maybe a re-torque on the head gasket first. 72 ft-lbs on stock bolts, 85 on ARP.

I wanted to do the FPR in my car earlier, but got a line on the bigger turbo first, so I put it in first. I kept the boost down(ish) until I got the Aeromotive AFPR though.

For the turbo, from what I hear, the 57 trim is okay, the 60-1 is overdoing it a bit, and you're getting into the territory where the stock center section can't handle it. A good BOV or bypass valve is a necessity once the boost starts to go up with the bigger compressor wheel.

If you're sticking with the CT26, then the stock wastegate will do. The place you get your turbo upgraded will be able to make sure that your is working properly.

The intercooler should be upgraded before the boost goes up. Good plan is to do the IC, pipe and BOV/BPV at the same time, since it'll all end up going together in the end.

For the exhaust, if you're SURE that you're going to stick with an upgraded CT26, then you can do that at any time, but I'd want to be sure of that first. Nothing like buying something expensive and then selling it cheap because you don't need it in your final build. I have the LIPP elbow going to the RT downpipe, so it would work with the stock unit, but it also works with my Turbonetics stock fit. I'd hate to take the hit selling those parts used after buying them new. A catback is pretty safe though since whatever you do forward of that can be made to bolt up.

Gauges can also be done at any time, but you'll want them as soon as possible.

Boost. Duh. Stock won't cut it when you're over stock boost.

Oil pressure, water temp. Aftermarket will be more accurate than stock. I'm still using stock myself, though I have added an aftermarket water temp as well. The stock gauges are slow to react at best, and lie like a rug at worst. It's an analogue idiot light, really.

Wideband is a toy while you're running the stock ECU. It's not like you can really do anything about your A/F ratios with the stock ECU. Maybe adjust base fuel pressure, but really, that's about it. If you catch it, you might find a need to do the full time 12V mod for the fuel pump. With a stand alone, that's another story entirely.


Your priorities sound similar to mine. Get some decent power without buying anything twice, and without blowing stuff up. (IE: inexpensive.)

So for me, the first stage was preparing for making power. That meant fuel (550cc injectors) and AFM (Lexus) went on while everything was still stock. Approx zero HP increase, but it made the next steps safer, and safer to play with. Then I intended to do the AFPR, to deal with the increased fuel delivery. After that, IC/BPV. So far very little in power increase, except that I did also shim the wastegate on the stock turbo to 12 lbs boost. This should be plenty safe for the stock CT26. Next, exhaust. There should be a bit of power in that, but so far, still not lots. Then I put the upgraded turbo in and boost controller. Everything prepared for it, and nothing blows up. Now I can increase boost, and check stuff as I go. I don't have a wideband. When I get onto a dyno, then I'll look at the data and determine what I need to do with base fuel pressure.
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'89NA-T, 499,XXX kms
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What I need to fix:
Need to install struts and bushings
Stereo reconstruction needed.
Need to install Fuel Pump
7M-GTE build (short block on a stand)
Body kit install
Rust

eBay F1 clutch pics.
NA-T engine swap pics
Driftmotion Action Stage 3 clutch pics
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Unread 08-09-2011, 10:06 PM   #8
Grandavi
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Alright, then I can get and install the 550's and Lexus AFM first if I understand.
I will swap in aftermarket boost, water and oil gauges before I pop in the dash. Easiest and I wint have to worry about redundant gauges.

Is there anything I need to worry about when sourcing a used Lexus AFM?

***I just did some more research... Want to make sure I have this straight...

A. I need to get 550 cc injectors (minimum... I could run with the stock 440's but I think that I would run too lean with a Lexus AFM)

B. I need the Lexus AFM (I can install the 550's first and the stock AFM and ecu should run properly without, but I won't be able to up my boost without hitting fuel cut)

C. The 3" exhaust can come at anytime so I should hold off until I decide on the final turbo app, so they mate correctly. It will allow the engine to breathe properly but the stock exhaust will suffice until later.

D. I won't have to worry about a waste gate with my goals unless they change later in.

E. I don't need an AFPR setup until later for tuning purposes. It's only purpose fir this discussion is to regulate the fuel I believe so I can reduce the fuel pressure?

F. At what point do I need the intercooler? What is the stock hp rating so I have an idea of when to upgrade? If I understand correctly, I don't need it upgraded unless I want to go above 15 psi boost.

I has my engine checked and torqued simply to make sure it could handle the extra boost and at that time rtcs gave it a thumbs up. The only weak point on my engine us the valve seals ( I plan on doing those before next summer... They are only annoying me with the blue startup. )

I plan to have the engine checked and retorqued prior to any over boosting. It was a full rebuild in 2002 (20,000 km ago)

What the problem is with "pathing" this... Many different opinions. I have been confused because people throw the terms around very loosely, but there's very little plain talk about a step by step... Guess that's the danger if having a versatile drivetrain...

Now I have to figure out how to tune once I install the AFM and injectors. A bad tune would probably kill the engine faster than boosting it.

Last edited by Grandavi; 08-10-2011 at 02:17 AM.
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Unread 08-10-2011, 06:48 AM   #9
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the lex/550 upgrade is to help prevent you from hitting fuel cut when using a stock ecu. along with it you should install an AFPR (adjustable fuel pressure regulator)

the stock intercooler and piping sucks, you can gain power by upgrading them even at stock boost levels. the ideal size of intercooler and piping can be different depending on your goals.

exhaust is a huge must on these, it should be first on your list. A divorced downpipe (whether it be recirculated or not) will be the best gains possible.

my personal opinion when it comes to turbo upgrades is to stay away from ct-26's, they are old and have known oil seal issues. you can get bolt on replacement turbos from suprasport or get an adapter/manifold for a different turbo.
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Unread 08-10-2011, 09:10 AM   #10
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If you get the Lexus AFM (Primarily to raise fuel cut) then you must also get the larger injectors. Some people have run the Lexus AFM with the stock injectors, but some people have done a lot of things that shouldn't be done.

You won't have to worry about a wastegate with an upgraded CT26 or the bolt-on from SupraSport. The turbo is one of the things that you can spend a good deal of money on, and I figure that you should at least DECIDE on what you're going to do before the exhaust, since there are many options for a turbo, many of which will require a different downpipe. Personally, I hate buying stuff that will need to be replaced. It's a waste of money, unless you can reasonably expect to sell it for at least what you paid for it (Which never happens.)

I do agree that the stock IC and piping sucks. The intercooler and piping back to the intake manifold can be done right away, but if you're not going to replace things once bought, then it is probably a good idea to know what you're doing for a turbo before doing the whole thing, since it may affect the pipe from turbo to IC. In my case, the turbo is a 2.5" outlet (And the pipe from turbo to IC is something that I bought, and ended up selling.)
__________________
In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.

'89NA-T, 499,XXX kms
Just about there!

What I need to fix:
Need to install struts and bushings
Stereo reconstruction needed.
Need to install Fuel Pump
7M-GTE build (short block on a stand)
Body kit install
Rust

eBay F1 clutch pics.
NA-T engine swap pics
Driftmotion Action Stage 3 clutch pics
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